IB Talk

 

Narrator 1: [00:00:05] Welcome to IB Talk, the leading podcast for the insurance industry across the UK and Ireland brought to you by insurance business. 

 

Narrator 2: [00:00:14] This episode is presented in partnership with RightSure. For the latest episode of IBA Talk, four times, bestselling author and founder of RightSure, Jeff Arnold provides insight on how the industry can compete with other industries to recruit, hire and train the brightest candidates. He takes a deep dive into how to best retain top talent and how generational differences are relevant in today's corporate staffing challenges. 

 

Bethan: [00:00:48] Hi everyone, and welcome back to IBA Talk the Insurance Business America podcast. I'm Bethan Moorcraft, senior editor at Insurance Business. And in today's episode I'm very excited to welcome back Jeff Arnold, founder of RightSure. Jeff it's great to have you on the show again. 

 

Jeff: [00:01:04] Thank you so much. Bethan, I am equally excited to continue the conversation with you. 

 

Bethan: [00:01:11] It's just great to have you on board. Over the course of this episode, Jeff and I are going to tackle a very timely and important topic how the insurance industry can win the war for talent. Now, Jeff, I've heard this said in so many different ways the great resignation, the great reshuffle, more recently, the great retirement, and of course, the war for talent. You've been working in the insurance industry for 30 years and a widely considered as a thought leader and ambassador for the industry. So, Jeff, just how serious is this current labor situation? 

 

Jeff: [00:01:46] Well, thanks so much, Beth. And I would submit to you and your listeners that it is quite unique. Right? And there are actually two different issues at play. There's the labor issue that you speak of, but there's also additionally a skill set issue, right? And so there is absolutely a war for talent in labor. But in addition to that, the new labor force coming in, there's just a different skill set that needs to be adapted and developed, right, that there exist in the upcoming generation, the incoming generations, this really tech forward skill set. But but without insulting, there's a lot more to learn from that generation in human relations, effective execution of tasks and getting things done. And so this war that we speak of is is just getting people into our industry, which have lots of great solutions for that. But it also is in training, transferring knowledge, giving skill sets to those new workers to be a success in our industry. 

 

Bethan: [00:02:54] Mm hmm. That's interesting. And that that tech forward skill set that you mentioned there, Jeff, you've authored several books about insurance and risk management. And in your latest book, which is titled Tech Forward Tech Enabled Tech Shackled, you tackle that talent issue and you look at that kind of tech forward skill set. There was one statement in the book that that caught my eye, which was that employees are overwhelmed, not overworked. Can you tell us what you mean by that? 

 

Jeff: [00:03:23] Yes, This this comment met with great opposition sometimes, really. And it bubbles up on a lot of podcasts and interviews. And what I meant was simply this, that we are all, everyone, COVID kind of changed our entire workflow management systems, management styles, lifestyles. And so what we see from a predominantly telecommuting society now is this massive feeling. And also what we hear is this massive feeling of overworked, We need more people. There's too much work to do for the people allowed. And when I look at the data and not the emotion, so I separate the data and the emotion, what we find in our space and when our space, I mean, in my my firm in North America, right? Sure. Because. Because this exists in our company, too. Right. And I push back and submit to our our staff that I think the word you're looking for is overwhelm, not overworked. And here's why. So the data would say that we are receiving fewer calls, right? Writing fewer policies and the number of clicks and visits is kind of subsided for 2020 to a little bit. But the amount of work that it feels like that are people doing keeps growing and everyone needs more staff. But my comment is maybe we're overwhelmed, not overworked because we're trying to fit so much into our normal day. You know, you really for those that telecommute full time, you've lost that ability to get out 30 or 45 minutes on the way to work and back to work and just have you time. So so much of people's day is started with kind of chasing dopamine, right? I call it waking up out of bed and and looking for that next fix or that next hit on the social media. And if you start your day chasing dopamine, you're always going to be tired and overwhelmed because you haven't had a chance to connect with yourself. And the one more quick thing, sort of be a bit long winded on this, but the other thing I challenge our people to do is. Those two things. Don't start your day chasing dopamine and don't start your day with email. Email is other people's work. Start the first 30 to 45 minutes of your workday, focusing on your task and the stuff that you need to get done. So I could spend a lot of time on this topic. I'm very passionate about it, so but we'll just leave it there to say that. Challenge your thought that you're not overworked, but possibly overwhelmed. 

 

Bethan: [00:06:02] Mm hmm. That's a really, really interesting and quite refreshing way to look at it, because it certainly has been an interesting challenge to kind of find that balance when we're all working remote and now drawing on another data point that is often quoted 50. Well, at least 50% of all insurance staff are looking for different jobs. Jeff, is there any data that supports that often quoted phrase? And if so, I mean, how can we help to retain our key staff in the industry? 

 

Jeff: [00:06:32] Yeah, it's a good, great question. I'm not sure where the data point comes from, but it aligns within my being, right. I suspect that every executive, any manager, front line, top level, what have you, needs to be keenly aware. That at least half of your people are looking for employment elsewhere. Right. And even if they aren't, it is very, very wise to treat them as if they are so that we're constantly empathetic with our people, re recruiting our people, letting them know that that we care, and that we are engaged and interested in furthering their career. And so again, with respect to the statistic, I'm not sure where that actual number came from, but every single leader should be treating their staff as if they're there looking so that they're pouring more of themselves into them and giving them more of the vision to keep them around. 

 

Bethan: [00:07:33] Mm hmm. Kind of building on that. You've also said in recent interviews and things like that that in today's corporate environment, so many people are distracted and they're unmotivated, misaligned or just burnt out. Can you dive a bit deeper into that? I think it kind of ties into what you said earlier about being overwhelmed as well. 

 

Jeff: [00:07:56] Admittedly, I agree there are a great many distractions pulling us in a thousand different directions. Right? Just the sheer inability to stay focused on topics is is really prevalent around conference rooms, around Zoom calls and every cubicle. It is a learned skill. And so many of us have to relearn that. Right? We've been kind of we all love to blame things on COVID, but it also changed how we do business. And so it does tie back into what we spoke about moments earlier, overwhelmed versus overworked, right? This constant distraction for more noise in our life, more, more, less silence. Right? I mean, we're paying a price by by that constant feeling of overwhelm. And I would even submit I'm not a doctor, but I would even submit that it can just drain your adrenals where you feel tired all the time. But but stepping out of that and getting some you time is very, very, very healthy and beneficial for you and your employer. 

 

Bethan: [00:09:04] Absolutely. Now, Jeff, I can tell from many conversations now that you are definitely a people person. I've heard you speak about kind of the generational differences between boomers, Gen X, Millennials, Gen Z. How is this relevant in today's corporate staffing challenges and how do you think managers can ensure they're meeting the needs of different generations in the workplace? 

 

Jeff: [00:09:30] I wish we had an hour because I would take it up on this subject alone. But then I mean, this is it's very own unique podcast, but we'll try to let's try to be succinct and run through here as as succinct as I can be anyway. Right. So yeah, there are there currently exist in the workplace for different generations and you listed them Boomer, Gen X, Millennial and Gen Z. And also coming up is Gen Alpha, right? And if you're in retail or the front line space, you'll start working alongside Gen Alpha's real soon, within 2 to 4 years. And so there will be five generations in workspace. And the big difference, the generational difference is as a leader, as a manager, you have to use a different skill set in how you approach, retain, recruit, manage, correct each of these different generations. And I'll just go to the opposite ends because again, I love to take an hour, but we don't have it right. So the boomer generation is, look, if you ask a baby boomer to to give you 8 hours, they'll probably give you 10 hours and check in along the way to make sure everything's in the order that you want and that it is effectively executed. Right. That is a skill set that they've learned over time. Well, the Gen Z generation, the latest ones in, haven't learned those skill sets yet. It's not bad. But also the mentality is, you know, 8 hours is 8 hours. It's not so readily relevant for them to go to extra hours. Right. They have this different not bad, different life work balance. And it's not all about the pouring your soul into the corporate world anymore. It's about this balance. And so just to quickly summarize this, if you manage or lead any of these generations, you have to address each generation different and use different words, right? I mean, you have to use softer words. The younger down, the generation you go, it's not bad. It's just real. And so just you should be aware of it that no one size fits all email, no one size fits all communicate, no one size fits all message. Resonate with all generations. You have to speak directly and distinctly to them. 

 

Bethan: [00:11:57] Mm hmm. And it's interesting because, you know, the younger generations are looking up to the boomers. I want to be in that person's position in ten, 15 years time, and yet they have these different approaches to work. So it is an interesting challenge, I imagine, for managers and leaders to kind of navigate this time. So very interesting thoughts. Jeff, thank you. 

 

Jeff: [00:12:20] Yeah. Can I interrupt one more comment here? I thought this is quite humorous because I have four children and millennials and Gen Zs and my own mother hit me with this. It's kind of funny because I'm an aged man, but I was talking about how you know just the work ethic is different and they've moved back into home. They leave home and my own mom just will make this real personal said. May I remind you, Jeffrey, that in the early eighties you spent most of your afternoons just watching MTV and avoiding going to college. So I think that we're unduly harsh on this new generation in my own mom kind of gave me that that hard pill to swallow. And so I'm sorry for throwing that in, but it was just so relevant and timely that I thought that kind of cute. 

 

Bethan: [00:13:08] No, that's okay. She gave you the Jeffrey. So, you know, moving on, another phrase I've heard you say a few times is psychic income. Now, can you tell me what you mean by psychic income and how it relates to this conversation around talent, attraction, development and retention? 

 

Jeff: [00:13:30] Sure. So there are two different ways that people are compensated, in my estimation. Right. There is the physical income, right? That's the dollars that we take home, the pounds that we take home for the work that we do and contribute to our employer. But there's also another lever that an employer can pull, and it's psychic income. And psychic income is free to spend and not spent freely enough. Right? So psychic income is just letting your people know that you care, creating deep connectivity with each person all along their path, all along their journey, giving them the vision, direction and guidance said, Look, you want to be in that corner office. Here's what it takes to get there, right? And using empathy in a daily portion of your skill set or in a daily portion of how you go about connecting with your people. And so psychic income is the ability in addition to dollars and pounds, to let people know that they matter. And you can spin very freely with this. And those managers, those leaders, those companies that spend freely with psychic income, retain people much longer, have a much happier workforce. 

 

Bethan: [00:14:47] Mm hmm. Thank you. I like that theme. And as someone from one of the younger generations, I would say that that resonates well with millennials and Gen Zs. And that's one of the things that they're definitely looking for today. So it's an interesting kind of theme and idea to think about definitely for leaders. And so, Jeff, I just want to close this out. Coming back to your most recent book, you talk a lot about talent. Again, you mentioned that sort of tech forward skill set. That's the type of thing we're looking for in the industry today. More and more insurance companies are using technology and innovation to attract talent. What are the differences between being tech forward enabled or tech shackled, and how does that impact, in your opinion, staffing, recruitment and talent retention? 

 

Jeff: [00:15:41] Great question. I've received quite a bit of quite a bit of feedback, comments from CEOs, from CIOs, from from tech people on on my book on that book. And what I meant by that is just a personal experience being in this business for 30 years. I kind of broke down the tech into those three things forward, shackled and enabled. And if you've ever been involved in a company externally or internally that adopted new technology, you've had to submit to those three areas, right? And so in our industry today, everyone's everyone wants that moniker or that label ensure tech, right? Because it's the latest, greatest cool fad. Well, I've always maintained that insurance is sexy, fun, awesome and the most exciting place ever. But when it comes to the tech side, companies often in an effort to be labeled and insure tech run and quickly adopt new technology. And so the whole concept of this book is be very careful, tread lightly. Caveat emptor. Buyer beware that in your effort to become tech forward, which is really being out front and making changes that are consumer friendly and people want to do business with you, that which is different than being tech enabled with tech enabled, which is utilizing technology, mobile phones, mobile apps, smart technology, the ability to bind online. And that's vastly different than being tech shackled. And the way tech shackled happens is you run out to adopt a new technology, implement it, and find out that it breaks every part of your process. And now it's harder for consumers to do business with you. It's harder for you people to answer questions. I challenge the CEO of a large insurance company recently on this very subject because there are two years into a tech overhaul. And I said it's almost I hit them pretty hard. I said, it's almost like you've just handed over the reins to the CIO and the MIS department and had them make this technology change and they aren't famous for being integrated in the consumer side. And so be very, very careful that this doesn't continue and new tech shackle your entire organization. So and how that relates to how we recruit, we hire and train people is if you're mired deep into a tech shackled organization, then then it's not effective and it destroys morale and is a detractor. And that psychic income we talked about. So just to summarize this very, very quickly here, that if you are in charge of in part of have a seat at the table of any tech integration, press those three thoughts up against the entire process. Are we being tech forward? We use this to be tech enabled and God forbid, please make sure that we do not become tech shackled. So that's my thoughts on that. 

 

Bethan: [00:18:49] Yeah. No, no, that's great. Jeff, lots of excellent insights there for our listeners to take away. This is just such an important time for the insurance industry and how insurance companies tackle this war for talent will really impact their chances of success in the future. And lots of great ideas in this conversation today. So thank you very much, Jeff, for yet another great conversation. It's been great to have you on the show. 

 

Jeff: [00:19:16] Thank you so much. Again, I look forward to these these conversations and these podcasts. Always a pleasure speaking with you. 

 

Bethan: [00:19:24] You too. And thanks also to our listeners for tuning in. I'm Bethan Moorcraft, senior editor at Insurance Business and this was IBA Talk. Thanks, everyone. 

 

Narrator 2: [00:19:35] Thank you for listening to this episode of IBA. Talk. For more from Jeff, you can visit jeffarnold.com. Thank you for listening to IB talk. For the latest episodes, be sure to follow us on PodBean. You can also tune in on your favorite listening channel. Find us on Spotify, Stitcher, and Apple Podcasts. 

 

IBA Podcast Transcript - Rightsure Podcast - How the insurance industry and your business can win the war for talent 

Narrator 1: [00:00:05] Welcome to IB Talk, the leading podcast for the insurance industry across the UK and Ireland brought to you by insurance business. 

 

Narrator 2: [00:00:14] This episode is presented in partnership with RightSure. For the latest episode of IBA Talk, four times, bestselling author and founder of RightSure, Jeff Arnold provides insight on how the industry can compete with other industries to recruit, hire and train the brightest candidates. He takes a deep dive into how to best retain top talent and how generational differences are relevant in today's corporate staffing challenges. 

 

Bethan: [00:00:48] Hi everyone, and welcome back to IBA Talk the Insurance Business America podcast. I'm Bethan Moorcraft, senior editor at Insurance Business. And in today's episode I'm very excited to welcome back Jeff Arnold, founder of RightSure. Jeff it's great to have you on the show again. 

 

Jeff: [00:01:04] Thank you so much. Bethan, I am equally excited to continue the conversation with you. 

 

Bethan: [00:01:11] It's just great to have you on board. Over the course of this episode, Jeff and I are going to tackle a very timely and important topic how the insurance industry can win the war for talent. Now, Jeff, I've heard this said in so many different ways the great resignation, the great reshuffle, more recently, the great retirement, and of course, the war for talent. You've been working in the insurance industry for 30 years and a widely considered as a thought leader and ambassador for the industry. So, Jeff, just how serious is this current labor situation? 

 

Jeff: [00:01:46] Well, thanks so much, Beth. And I would submit to you and your listeners that it is quite unique. Right? And there are actually two different issues at play. There's the labor issue that you speak of, but there's also additionally a skill set issue, right? And so there is absolutely a war for talent in labor. But in addition to that, the new labor force coming in, there's just a different skill set that needs to be adapted and developed, right, that there exist in the upcoming generation, the incoming generations, this really tech forward skill set. But but without insulting, there's a lot more to learn from that generation in human relations, effective execution of tasks and getting things done. And so this war that we speak of is is just getting people into our industry, which have lots of great solutions for that. But it also is in training, transferring knowledge, giving skill sets to those new workers to be a success in our industry. 

 

Bethan: [00:02:54] Mm hmm. That's interesting. And that that tech forward skill set that you mentioned there, Jeff, you've authored several books about insurance and risk management. And in your latest book, which is titled Tech Forward Tech Enabled Tech Shackled, you tackle that talent issue and you look at that kind of tech forward skill set. There was one statement in the book that that caught my eye, which was that employees are overwhelmed, not overworked. Can you tell us what you mean by that? 

 

Jeff: [00:03:23] Yes, This this comment met with great opposition sometimes, really. And it bubbles up on a lot of podcasts and interviews. And what I meant was simply this, that we are all, everyone, COVID kind of changed our entire workflow management systems, management styles, lifestyles. And so what we see from a predominantly telecommuting society now is this massive feeling. And also what we hear is this massive feeling of overworked, We need more people. There's too much work to do for the people allowed. And when I look at the data and not the emotion, so I separate the data and the emotion, what we find in our space and when our space, I mean, in my my firm in North America, right? Sure. Because. Because this exists in our company, too. Right. And I push back and submit to our our staff that I think the word you're looking for is overwhelm, not overworked. And here's why. So the data would say that we are receiving fewer calls, right? Writing fewer policies and the number of clicks and visits is kind of subsided for 2020 to a little bit. But the amount of work that it feels like that are people doing keeps growing and everyone needs more staff. But my comment is maybe we're overwhelmed, not overworked because we're trying to fit so much into our normal day. You know, you really for those that telecommute full time, you've lost that ability to get out 30 or 45 minutes on the way to work and back to work and just have you time. So so much of people's day is started with kind of chasing dopamine, right? I call it waking up out of bed and and looking for that next fix or that next hit on the social media. And if you start your day chasing dopamine, you're always going to be tired and overwhelmed because you haven't had a chance to connect with yourself. And the one more quick thing, sort of be a bit long winded on this, but the other thing I challenge our people to do is. Those two things. Don't start your day chasing dopamine and don't start your day with email. Email is other people's work. Start the first 30 to 45 minutes of your workday, focusing on your task and the stuff that you need to get done. So I could spend a lot of time on this topic. I'm very passionate about it, so but we'll just leave it there to say that. Challenge your thought that you're not overworked, but possibly overwhelmed. 

 

Bethan: [00:06:02] Mm hmm. That's a really, really interesting and quite refreshing way to look at it, because it certainly has been an interesting challenge to kind of find that balance when we're all working remote and now drawing on another data point that is often quoted 50. Well, at least 50% of all insurance staff are looking for different jobs. Jeff, is there any data that supports that often quoted phrase? And if so, I mean, how can we help to retain our key staff in the industry? 

 

Jeff: [00:06:32] Yeah, it's a good, great question. I'm not sure where the data point comes from, but it aligns within my being, right. I suspect that every executive, any manager, front line, top level, what have you, needs to be keenly aware. That at least half of your people are looking for employment elsewhere. Right. And even if they aren't, it is very, very wise to treat them as if they are so that we're constantly empathetic with our people, re recruiting our people, letting them know that that we care, and that we are engaged and interested in furthering their career. And so again, with respect to the statistic, I'm not sure where that actual number came from, but every single leader should be treating their staff as if they're there looking so that they're pouring more of themselves into them and giving them more of the vision to keep them around. 

 

Bethan: [00:07:33] Mm hmm. Kind of building on that. You've also said in recent interviews and things like that that in today's corporate environment, so many people are distracted and they're unmotivated, misaligned or just burnt out. Can you dive a bit deeper into that? I think it kind of ties into what you said earlier about being overwhelmed as well. 

 

Jeff: [00:07:56] Admittedly, I agree there are a great many distractions pulling us in a thousand different directions. Right? Just the sheer inability to stay focused on topics is is really prevalent around conference rooms, around Zoom calls and every cubicle. It is a learned skill. And so many of us have to relearn that. Right? We've been kind of we all love to blame things on COVID, but it also changed how we do business. And so it does tie back into what we spoke about moments earlier, overwhelmed versus overworked, right? This constant distraction for more noise in our life, more, more, less silence. Right? I mean, we're paying a price by by that constant feeling of overwhelm. And I would even submit I'm not a doctor, but I would even submit that it can just drain your adrenals where you feel tired all the time. But but stepping out of that and getting some you time is very, very, very healthy and beneficial for you and your employer. 

 

Bethan: [00:09:04] Absolutely. Now, Jeff, I can tell from many conversations now that you are definitely a people person. I've heard you speak about kind of the generational differences between boomers, Gen X, Millennials, Gen Z. How is this relevant in today's corporate staffing challenges and how do you think managers can ensure they're meeting the needs of different generations in the workplace? 

 

Jeff: [00:09:30] I wish we had an hour because I would take it up on this subject alone. But then I mean, this is it's very own unique podcast, but we'll try to let's try to be succinct and run through here as as succinct as I can be anyway. Right. So yeah, there are there currently exist in the workplace for different generations and you listed them Boomer, Gen X, Millennial and Gen Z. And also coming up is Gen Alpha, right? And if you're in retail or the front line space, you'll start working alongside Gen Alpha's real soon, within 2 to 4 years. And so there will be five generations in workspace. And the big difference, the generational difference is as a leader, as a manager, you have to use a different skill set in how you approach, retain, recruit, manage, correct each of these different generations. And I'll just go to the opposite ends because again, I love to take an hour, but we don't have it right. So the boomer generation is, look, if you ask a baby boomer to to give you 8 hours, they'll probably give you 10 hours and check in along the way to make sure everything's in the order that you want and that it is effectively executed. Right. That is a skill set that they've learned over time. Well, the Gen Z generation, the latest ones in, haven't learned those skill sets yet. It's not bad. But also the mentality is, you know, 8 hours is 8 hours. It's not so readily relevant for them to go to extra hours. Right. They have this different not bad, different life work balance. And it's not all about the pouring your soul into the corporate world anymore. It's about this balance. And so just to quickly summarize this, if you manage or lead any of these generations, you have to address each generation different and use different words, right? I mean, you have to use softer words. The younger down, the generation you go, it's not bad. It's just real. And so just you should be aware of it that no one size fits all email, no one size fits all communicate, no one size fits all message. Resonate with all generations. You have to speak directly and distinctly to them. 

 

Bethan: [00:11:57] Mm hmm. And it's interesting because, you know, the younger generations are looking up to the boomers. I want to be in that person's position in ten, 15 years time, and yet they have these different approaches to work. So it is an interesting challenge, I imagine, for managers and leaders to kind of navigate this time. So very interesting thoughts. Jeff, thank you. 

 

Jeff: [00:12:20] Yeah. Can I interrupt one more comment here? I thought this is quite humorous because I have four children and millennials and Gen Zs and my own mother hit me with this. It's kind of funny because I'm an aged man, but I was talking about how you know just the work ethic is different and they've moved back into home. They leave home and my own mom just will make this real personal said. May I remind you, Jeffrey, that in the early eighties you spent most of your afternoons just watching MTV and avoiding going to college. So I think that we're unduly harsh on this new generation in my own mom kind of gave me that that hard pill to swallow. And so I'm sorry for throwing that in, but it was just so relevant and timely that I thought that kind of cute. 

 

Bethan: [00:13:08] No, that's okay. She gave you the Jeffrey. So, you know, moving on, another phrase I've heard you say a few times is psychic income. Now, can you tell me what you mean by psychic income and how it relates to this conversation around talent, attraction, development and retention? 

 

Jeff: [00:13:30] Sure. So there are two different ways that people are compensated, in my estimation. Right. There is the physical income, right? That's the dollars that we take home, the pounds that we take home for the work that we do and contribute to our employer. But there's also another lever that an employer can pull, and it's psychic income. And psychic income is free to spend and not spent freely enough. Right? So psychic income is just letting your people know that you care, creating deep connectivity with each person all along their path, all along their journey, giving them the vision, direction and guidance said, Look, you want to be in that corner office. Here's what it takes to get there, right? And using empathy in a daily portion of your skill set or in a daily portion of how you go about connecting with your people. And so psychic income is the ability in addition to dollars and pounds, to let people know that they matter. And you can spin very freely with this. And those managers, those leaders, those companies that spend freely with psychic income, retain people much longer, have a much happier workforce. 

 

Bethan: [00:14:47] Mm hmm. Thank you. I like that theme. And as someone from one of the younger generations, I would say that that resonates well with millennials and Gen Zs. And that's one of the things that they're definitely looking for today. So it's an interesting kind of theme and idea to think about definitely for leaders. And so, Jeff, I just want to close this out. Coming back to your most recent book, you talk a lot about talent. Again, you mentioned that sort of tech forward skill set. That's the type of thing we're looking for in the industry today. More and more insurance companies are using technology and innovation to attract talent. What are the differences between being tech forward enabled or tech shackled, and how does that impact, in your opinion, staffing, recruitment and talent retention? 

 

Jeff: [00:15:41] Great question. I've received quite a bit of quite a bit of feedback, comments from CEOs, from CIOs, from from tech people on on my book on that book. And what I meant by that is just a personal experience being in this business for 30 years. I kind of broke down the tech into those three things forward, shackled and enabled. And if you've ever been involved in a company externally or internally that adopted new technology, you've had to submit to those three areas, right? And so in our industry today, everyone's everyone wants that moniker or that label ensure tech, right? Because it's the latest, greatest cool fad. Well, I've always maintained that insurance is sexy, fun, awesome and the most exciting place ever. But when it comes to the tech side, companies often in an effort to be labeled and insure tech run and quickly adopt new technology. And so the whole concept of this book is be very careful, tread lightly. Caveat emptor. Buyer beware that in your effort to become tech forward, which is really being out front and making changes that are consumer friendly and people want to do business with you, that which is different than being tech enabled with tech enabled, which is utilizing technology, mobile phones, mobile apps, smart technology, the ability to bind online. And that's vastly different than being tech shackled. And the way tech shackled happens is you run out to adopt a new technology, implement it, and find out that it breaks every part of your process. And now it's harder for consumers to do business with you. It's harder for you people to answer questions. I challenge the CEO of a large insurance company recently on this very subject because there are two years into a tech overhaul. And I said it's almost I hit them pretty hard. I said, it's almost like you've just handed over the reins to the CIO and the MIS department and had them make this technology change and they aren't famous for being integrated in the consumer side. And so be very, very careful that this doesn't continue and new tech shackle your entire organization. So and how that relates to how we recruit, we hire and train people is if you're mired deep into a tech shackled organization, then then it's not effective and it destroys morale and is a detractor. And that psychic income we talked about. So just to summarize this very, very quickly here, that if you are in charge of in part of have a seat at the table of any tech integration, press those three thoughts up against the entire process. Are we being tech forward? We use this to be tech enabled and God forbid, please make sure that we do not become tech shackled. So that's my thoughts on that. 

 

Bethan: [00:18:49] Yeah. No, no, that's great. Jeff, lots of excellent insights there for our listeners to take away. This is just such an important time for the insurance industry and how insurance companies tackle this war for talent will really impact their chances of success in the future. And lots of great ideas in this conversation today. So thank you very much, Jeff, for yet another great conversation. It's been great to have you on the show. 

 

Jeff: [00:19:16] Thank you so much. Again, I look forward to these these conversations and these podcasts. Always a pleasure speaking with you. 

 

Bethan: [00:19:24] You too. And thanks also to our listeners for tuning in. I'm Bethan Moorcraft, senior editor at Insurance Business and this was IBA Talk. Thanks, everyone. 

 

Narrator 2: [00:19:35] Thank you for listening to this episode of IBA. Talk. For more from Jeff, you can visit jeffarnold.com. Thank you for listening to IB talk. For the latest episodes, be sure to follow us on PodBean. You can also tune in on your favorite listening channel. Find us on Spotify, Stitcher, and Apple Podcasts. 

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